GAIN THE PASSION
GAIN THE PASSION
Nov. 14, 2021

Dave Ferguson - Don't be a Boss, Be a Leader

Dave Ferguson - Don't be a Boss, Be a Leader

Dave Ferguson is a SUCCESS® Certified Coach, an internationally respected executive coach, speaker, facilitator, and author, in the areas of leadership and personal development. 

Prior to launching his coaching and speaking business in 2006, Dave served 25 years in corporate leadership roles in Fortune 500 banking, real estate, and investment companies. In addition, he served in leadership roles in the United States Air Force. During these years, Dave engaged his no-nonsense leadership approach to challenge, coach, mentor, and develop leaders at all levels.

As a corporate leader turned corporate coach, Dave’s experience uniquely qualifies him to not only coach and support leaders and their teams, but to truly understand their distinct challenges. Dave will challenge your team to make intentional choices that leverage their professional development, inspire them to become better leaders, and demonstrate ways they can cultivate and apply their skills.

His mission is to equip bosses in becoming leaders, and leaders in creating their legacies.

Dave will challenge, inspire, and energize your organizational leaders to gain greater influence and lead to higher levels.

Follow Dave on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ASKCOACHDAVE/
Learn more about Dave
https://livingtolead.com/
Buy Dave's book Boss or Leader
https://leadstore.samcart.com/products/boss-or-leader-book
Episode Transcript
https://www.successcoachingpodcast.com/dave-ferguson-dont-be-a-boss-be-a-leader/#transcript

Find out more about GAIN THE PASSION Coaching
https://www.gainthepassion.com
Access past episodes and more of the GAIN THE PASSION Podcast
https://www.gainthepassionpodcast.com

Transcript
Voiceover:

This is the SUCCESS Coaching Podcast with hosts Todd Foster, Alyssa Stanley and Kelley Skar

Alyssa Stanley:

Hello everyone and welcome to the SUCCESS Coaching Podcast. My name is Alyssa Stanley and I am here with my co hosts, Todd Foster and Kelley Skar. Today we are talking with fellow SUCCESS Coach Dave Ferguson. He is th founder of living to lead wher he is an internationall recognized executive coac working with leaders literall across the world, to increas their effectiveness and achiev greater results. He is also published author of boss o leader. Welcome, we are s excited to have you Dave

Dave Ferguson:

Well, thanks. I'm excited to be here.

Kelley Skar:

Alright, Dave, welcome to the success coaching podcast, man, really appreciate your time today. You know, we we just shot a podcast, we were talking a little bit about leadership on that podcast, you wrote a book, you had mentioned pre show pre recording that you have 16 principles on leadership. And you know, maybe without getting into each and every principle, because we could probably go deep on on every single one in conversation, maybe just give us a quick summary as to as to what those 16 principles are.

Dave Ferguson:

Well 16 principles that I believe a leader should have, and in no specific order. And what I do in the book is compare how a boss and a leader see those values differently. So someone like perseverance, vision, character, competition, relationships, things like that, and so 16 of them. And that's really what the book does. And what it does is at the end of each chapter, ask you some questions. So you can kind of self analyze, am I more of a boss around this guy or leader.

Kelley Skar:

Describe to me then what like, is that that statement kind of an in cab, encapsulate what a boss versus what a leader could be, like, maybe explain to our audience, what do you feel like a bosses versus what a leader is?

Dave Ferguson:

I think as simple as simple as form, I think a boss is more of a director, right? Bosses, direct people, leaders, influence people and get them to follow them on whatever the journey or mission or job is. And they both come across very differently. And, you know, I use examples in my book, because I've worked for both, you know, early in my years, I worked for some leaders, and I worked with some bosses and I really saw a huge difference. So when I got into the whole writing world, I said, you know, I need to write this because there's some good stories that go along with that. And, you know, when you start thinking back, you know, even to as a kid, when I worked for some people, I worked for a great leader as a kid. And he and he not only, you know, hired me and gave me a job, but he really took me under his wing, from a personal standpoint, to where generally your boss is not going to do that. So, you know, I've got a lot of examples through my careers, and, you know, obviously pre career too, but where I really, you know, sometimes as a kid, look, you don't know what leadership is as a kid. But I grew up next to a volunteer fire department. And, um, you know, I, I sought leadership didn't know what I was, was that I was looking for it. But I know now I did. And, and some of these men really were good leaders in the community. And you know, and they took me under their wing as a kid. So it helped.

Todd Foster:

So as a kid, what age first of all was a kid?

Dave Ferguson:

I write my book around 10, I realized that I was kind of, you know, out there on my own for the most part.

Todd Foster:

So you you live next to a fire station, and at 10 years old, you decided to go next door? And did they throw you in a hat and send you in your first fire will happen there?

Dave Ferguson:

Well, there's a big parking lot where they parked their cars, right. And if there's events, people would park there, and so I would go out in the parking lot, these guys would come after work, and they'd be washing trucks and sitting out there and drinking beer back then, and having a good time and, and polish and trucks and everything. And I go out there and kick the ball around, you know, try to get their attention. And it works. They started, you know, some of them drive me to literally practice and one of them hired me when I was older. Um, you know, just neat little things you don't see you don't realize it till you get to a specific point in your life and you go like, wow, like, like, you know, my mother and my grandmother. You know, I never saw them as leaders until later in life. But they were really great leaders. And And when my mother passed, I was amazed. The stories I heard from people I didn't even know the way she led in life in general. Hundreds of people just stop telling me stories. And so we often don't look for leadership. You know, what I what I push in part of my vision is Let's look for it. It's out there. Um, and the right kind of leadership, you know, because the simplest definition is if you can influence somebody do something or a leader. I don't necessarily agree with that. Because there's an awful lot of bad leaders, right? But But yeah, it's all about influence. Like I look at those men in the fire department there. And it sounds silly going back that far. But that's where it really started for me that impression that these men influenced me.

Todd Foster:

So those men influence you at the age of 10. And which is great. As a 10 year old, you're a sponge, and you go either way, at 10 years old. Once you were in school, what did you do after school, like for a job or a career?

Dave Ferguson:

So, so this one guy that hired me, he owned that ice plan. This is a good start. He just passed two years ago, too, but he is and his nickname was chilly. So you know, I have to go to where I worked inside the ice plant making giant 300 pound ice cubes and then have them cut into ice cubes and put in the bags and put it on a truck and, and then we delivered a lot of ice sufficient docks. And you know, I grew up on eastern Long Island. So fishing docks and stuff like that. And it was just, oh my god, I have so much fun there. I have a high school buddies that worked with us. And just, you know, a lot of people I'm still connected with their family still runs the business sons still run the business. It was just, it was just fun. But he was such a great leader and a great person and did so much for the community. So it was just a neat experience. I learned a lot. You know, then I go into the corporate world. And, you know, one of the I got hired into a bank, and you know, they were going to send me around and I got hired and this advanced leadership program. They saw a gap in leadership, and they needed more leaders. So you had to qualify, go through all these interviews, but then they say, you spend like six months with different leaders in their organization. Well, the first guy was a total boss, I mean, a total boss. And he was vertically challenged. And so they like, and here's how I knew, like, but if you worked for him, you made a lot of money. So people put up with him, right? Because he was one of the top leaders. Well, one of the top producers in the organization. So if you worked for him, you made a lot of money. So people put up with him. But in the back and after work, they were all talking about him. You know, they call them in shy Private Eye, Tasmanian devil. And, you know, so he was a total boss. I remember one time, I needed to ask him a question. And I knelt down at his desk and he a different story. But But yeah, and then it's funny, the next guy went to was a total leader. So it was completely different. Everybody loved them. You did well, he took the time to develop you. It wasn't all about money. It was just a totally different, you know, thing. And I could stories through my career where I've worked for both, you know, I think when I went into corporate headquarters, I got brought in there by an amazing leader that saw something in me that literally wanted me to move into corporate headquarters to to work under his tutelage because he wanted to develop me as a leader. And he did. And so you know, you have to look for it, though, right? And as a kid, like, I'll go back to the child, you don't look forward as a kid. But, boy, it really brings back some fond memories.

Kelley Skar:

So Dave, you mentioned the boss, you made a lot of money working for the boss. I'm curious, did you make a lot of money working for the leader? And if you didn't want what what was the difference between the two?

Dave Ferguson:

I did actually ended up taking the leaders job. At one point, so yeah, it was it. It was it was a big difference. So you know, when in training, the money really didn't matter. Because I really wasn't in that. That's in that cycle. I was in the training cycle. I was only going to be there six months more for the people that worked for him. But yeah, I did. Well, after that.

Alyssa Stanley:

I'm curious. You've worked both for leaders and a boss. Why was a pivotal moment where you realize there was a difference between Oh, there's a boss, and then there's a leader? Was it an experience or just time? You know,

Dave Ferguson:

You know, when I talk about it on stage, I talk about the first two I talked to you about in the corporate world where were the one guy that was a total boss, and the next guy I went to was a leader. And then when I ended up going, was asked to go into corporate headquarters working for that man, I really realized like, wow, this is a leader. You know, this was a guy who had, you know, two sons that were probably maybe 10 years younger than me, at that point. 10 or 15 years younger than me, but I almost felt like almost felt like his son. Like he just did things what I felt like that was out of the ordinary. Like he just took time he if he wanted to congratulate on something, or teach me something, because he taught me a lot more and he congratulated me. He would, he'd literally would come up and there was a little pub around the corner. Right? He liked draught beer. And he would say, What are you doing after work? I'm like, I'm eating plant. He goes, alright, let's go grab a beer. And that's the way he would teach me. Not all the time. But that was very common for me like to get off property. He liked to make it very personal. It wasn't over the top, like, you know, I'm doing this for you. We never did that never did that it was all about, he saw something in me, others didn't see back then. And he wanted to pour into it. And that's, in my opinion, leadership,

Todd Foster:

With your research and really diving deep into these topics. Have you discovered if there's a different industry where a boss is better than a leader?

Dave Ferguson:

Ooh, that's a good question. And I would like my quick answer is no. Because, you know, like, I think about fact, I had a call with the CEO of this company this morning. Um, he's one of my coaching clients, I do a lot of work in their company. And it's a very blue collar business, it's a big business is all over the hundreds of locations around the states. And but it's, it's outside of corporate headquarters, it's all blue collar work. But we're on a mission to really, really take leadership to every level of the organization, down to the lowest levels down to the branch levels. And, you know, there is some some readers that I'm working with there that are like, they're not going to buy into it. And, you know, and I, and I, my answer is, why have you tried it before? They haven't, you know, they just their mindset is, but the funny thing is, you know, three of the top three of the C level people started at the bottom of this organization. So like, you did it, why can't they? So I really say no, and like I said, this is a very blue collar, you know, tough, tough work. Industry. Um, so I know, I don't think there's, you know, I don't think there's a fit for a boss anywhere. You know, I think I think it's, you know, yeah, we got a T shirts and coffee mugs that says boss of the Year and Best boss and all that I'd love to change that, you know, the best leader. You know, we talk about leadership so much, and there's so many people that write about leadership, and there's so many people that speak on leadership, so many of them have never led. As well, you know, it's one thing to talk theory, you know, it's like college professors, right? They know, a lot of theory, but a lot of them have really never gone out. And yes, we need them. And I'm not I'm not speaking badly of it. But but practical experience. You know, I, you know, you can read all, you could read 105 of John Maxwell's books on leadership, and still not be a good leader, but just have a lot of knowledge about leadership. So it's, it's back to that whole, you know, knowledge is power, almost, until you execute with the knowledge. It's not powerful.

Alyssa Stanley:

So I want to talk aboutyour book for a minute. Boss, a leader, which you published back in 2016. What was Dave doing before you decided to write a book and

Dave Ferguson:

Well, I see I've been in I retired almost 15 publish that? years ago. So I went right into the coaching industry. And one of my mentors, who was a writer, not a coach, but a writer. He told me right away, he says, get published. Because I went to them and said, Give me a couple tips. He thought I was crazy. He doesn't like the coaching industry. He thought I was crazy. But you know, he said, get published somewhere, find a rag, a small town paper find somewhere. And so I did. And I convinced them to let me write a column. That's where asked Coach Dave came from. So I wrote a cop. My column was called ask coach Dave. And I wrote, and I ended up you know, in the Sunday, you know, in the Sunday paper, and then they found out they owned 18 papers. So it ended up going into all of those. And, you know, it was good it was I wrote, I write very simply, like if you were to read my book, it's written at probably about an eighth grade level. I write very simply and easy and people liked it. It's been picked it up. And you know, I got I can, I can give you a I could tell a whole story of the bit of the first person that hired me, actually, the first person that hired me, I can't mention their name, but their big time you you would know who they were, hired me for that column, he had a CEO call me and say, He wants to meet with you. And since then, that whole thing is generated, you know, referral after referral after referral or for referral. Now, I haven't written in those papers now for, I don't know six or seven years. So that got me writing got me in you know, magazines and stuff. like that, I'd written in some chamber things. And, you know, and finally, you know, John Maxwell, who was a very serious mentor of mine. Before I wrote this book, said to me, you've got to write a book. You got to write a book. So I wrote a book. And it was that simple. It's not simple, right? But this is that simple as that's the story.

Alyssa Stanley:

Did you coach before you wrote the book, then? Oh, yeah, I started in a way. Okay. And so then you started coaching leaders? And is that where you started with? And now you're continuing to coach with that? Or did you start with a different niche?

Dave Ferguson:

Well, back in 2008, when I stepped out of corporate and decided to coach, if you could pay me I'd coach you. That's just God's honest truth. I moved around, right, probably around 2014, I really rebranded into a leadership coach, because I really did want to focus on working with leaders, you know, because of my corporate experience, I'm attracted to corporate people, right. So getting to work with C level people was really an a niche for me. Generally, once you get into the C level, you're going to be working for a company, you're working for a company a long time, so you don't have to spend much time hunting. And I don't, not a big fan of hunting. So it's just worked really well. And, and you know, the great thing about coaching, I learned from every call that I'm on, you know, I just call I had this morning with a car, I've been coaching for a while, I actually started coaching at this company, because they had hired an internal coach, and they wanted me to coach their internal coach. Okay, well, now I've done workshops for him, I'm coaching the C suite, I'm going to get ready to roll out some other things for them. But just the conversation that I had with that CEO this morning, you know, at the end, when they say, he said to me, I can't use the exact words, but man, he was like, This call was so valuable today, it's so nice to have someone outside that I can talk to almost his exact words, right. And you get that so much, because you can be that person to them. From a coaching perspective, coaching is not always about what some of these trainings are about always asking questions. You know, there is some consultant, you've got a lot of wisdom, there's some consulting it too, right? You know, like, I'm not, I didn't get my coaching certification for $35. Right. I mean, it's years and years and years. Yeah, I've been certified by a number of places, including success. But it's really all comes down to the experience. And it just takes time. It takes time, a lot of patience, and you know, but it's great. It's a, it's a great way to make a living and working with leaders that want to get better around leadership, you know, and advance as what I call advanced advance the vision of their organization, so they don't end up like Blockbuster or, or Sears or several others, right? They're always advancing the vision. That's what leaders have to do that. That's the second run on my leaders ladder.

Voiceover:

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Kelley Skar:

Have you ever been able to take a boss to a leader through coaching?

Dave Ferguson:

Absolutely.

Kelley Skar:

Take us through what the what the what the process would be, you know, I would assume it's, it's going to be probably a lot like battling addiction, right? So the first step of battling an addiction is actually understanding that you have a problem, right? And so, I'm not saying that having that boss mentality or mindset is problematic, but it very well could be within an organization. So kind of take us through what the process could potentially be.

Dave Ferguson:

I have a great example for this. So I'm working with this organization, about 11,000 employees. I think I started coaching about 40 of mostly senior but some mid. And there was a mid level guy that had been there a long time. I had everybody do a 360 assessment leadership 360 assessment. Well, his came back the worst I've ever seen. And I've done 1000s and 1000s of assessments. I mean, it was the worst leadership assessments I've ever seen. When we were going over it, he was pretty much in tears. I mean, it was that bad. The comments, you know that the survey was bad, but the comments were even worse. And I said to him, I said, John, I'm like, this is an opportunity. Yeah, this sucks. They said these things. But it wasn't just one person. So we have to accept that it's true. Right? So there's that acceptance, right, I have a problem. And I'll help you. I'm working with you one on one anyway. So now we take this and we work on it. And I was able to watch him. It was not easy. It was painful. I said you don't have to go apologize to someone. A lot of the people in the company know you're working with me so we don't need to hide that. Just improve day by day, one step at a time, one person at a time, one relationship About a time, and he did a really good job, it took a while. We're never there. We might think we're there. But we're never there.

Alyssa Stanley:

Was he genuinely shocked by the feedback? Did he have no idea?

Dave Ferguson:

You know, he kind of played like, he had no idea. But I think you know how people feel about you, you get a general feeling of shares, you know, but the thing is he addressed in the organization, he had a vital role in this organization, it wasn't a small role. And he touched his role touched a lot of people, he ran a function where most employees had to touch that function. So, you know, he touched a lot of people in the organization. So it was a great, I teed it up as a great opportunity. And I said, then you have a coach to help you do it.

Kelley Skar:

What's the big missing piece between Boss Boss type mentality and leadership? Like what was what was the thing that you had to get him to recognize and understand that he needed to start making these tweaks? Was it empathy was a compassion? Was it? Was he devoid of those things? I mean, was he a narcissist? I mean, what what like, what, what was the what was the missing piece?

Dave Ferguson:

Generally, the missing pieces, pieces humility. You got to humble myself. Right. And and most generally, you know, that when I'm asked a question, often what comes back the most in in 360s? Assessments, I'll say, like humility. You know, from a negative standpoint, that's one of the biggest things that comes back. My I don't feel like my leader is humble. They told me everything's, they're great. But you know, you share, you know, just share your losses, too, with people. You know, I mean, there's a lot, that's one of the things I get to do in coaching. Like, you know, I was able to say to that, John, right there that, you know, in some ways, John, I got to go through that process myself.

Alyssa Stanley:

You know, Dave, I think you've done an amazing job explaining to us the difference between a boss and a leader. And you can tell you're extremely passionate about this, because you've experienced it. And this is what you coach, and this is the life that you live. And kind of the story that you want to help people learn and live by. But if they want to learn more about this, I have two questions. Where can they get your book? And to where can they learn more about what you do and what you offer?

Dave Ferguson:

Well, they can do both through my website, which is livingtolead.com. And you know, for your audience that they want the book, I'll give them a code for 50% off. And that code is up is PE101. So Prince Edward one on one, and just put that in, you'll get 50% off. And then my information on coaching and speaking and everything else is on my website, and they can contact me through my website, as well.

Alyssa Stanley:

And your Instagram is ask coach Dave. Correct?

Dave Ferguson:

Ask coach Dave.

Alyssa Stanley:

Well, thank you for that code. That is awesome. That's huge.

Todd Foster:

I like to go back to the 10 year old Dave. When you were young, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dave Ferguson:

I wanted to be a banker.

Todd Foster:

Okay. And it sounds like you fulfilled that.

Dave Ferguson:

I'm glad you asked me this question is one of my favorite stories. I was poor, but I was a little hustler. Like I would do anything for money because I was poor. And I figured out around a 10. I say in my book that I was caught on my own. So I was a hustler. Like I shop for old ladies cut their grass, rake the leaves. If it's snowed, I was up at four o'clock knocking on people's doors. And I was a hustler. And, you know, back then, community banks were it man, they were big was a little community bank, not too far to my grandmother, my grandmother taking me there and then really teaching me how to save money. Right. And, in fact, I mean, these these, these banks, like, you know, these community banks, everybody was dressed real sharp, and everybody's really nice. And they got to know you, and they drove nice cars. And here's this poor kid going on money. Nice people, fancy cars. You know, I remember this one woman that worked. She always pinched my cheek when I'd come in. And I just was like, I want to be a banker. The funny thing is, I spent 20 years in banking and never, never went into bank branch. Because I found out that the people in the bank branch are really the ones that make the money. So the poor kid in me still existed, you know, I was like money. I need money. Right? So yeah, that was a that was a Yeah, that's how I That's literally how I, you know, it was either that or I was gonna go into I was gonna be a pastor.

Todd Foster:

Okay, so now, let's advance up to 15 years ago, did you wake up one day and said, I'm retiring? I'm done. I'm going into coaching or what was that path like for you?

Dave Ferguson:

I had a very sweet deal to retire early. And it was and it was time. You know, I was still young. But it was time. I wanted to do something on my own I had to offer so I could have gone work, I still get them some of my clients shops today, but I wanted to try something on my own. And I felt like consulting coaching, I'd been to some Tony Robbins stuff, and it was placed in Fiji. And you know, and I did my research. And I just go in, you know, but I've look, I've spent, you know, I have this conversation with, you know, I do coach some coaches for a living, newer coaches, and I've had this conversation with them. And I think most of them don't believe what I'm going to tell you right now. But it's the truth. And if you don't believe me, as the IRS, I've probably spent the first eight to 10 years in this industry, I probably spent between 60 and $80,000 a year on development, whether that was having a coach, whatever it was, I spent, I'm getting better. I invested a lot, you're right, thanks for correcting that I invested a lot in myself, so that I could invest more in people. And and it's paid off, right. I mean, it's paid off. And, and it's, you know, I tell the coaches now that are getting into the industry or in the industry that, you know, you've got to learn from others, you know, it, you know, initially it cost me money to hang out with John Maxwell, of course, then he contracted me, right, it cost me money to hang out with other people too, you know, but, um, I got a lot out of it. And some of them, I've had partnerships even since then. So the investments even done better. So, you know, it's, you definitely have to invest in yourself in that and take that back to bosses and leaders, leaders are going to be more prone invest not only in themselves, but they really do invest in their people. And a lot of it's just their time, but it is an investment. Because time is money, right?

Todd Foster:

So let's say I'm not the guy who had a nice payout for buyout when I left, and I wanted to get into coaching, or any type of business at all. And, you know, you said you're spending between 60 to $80,000. A year to get to where you are today. How could someone do that on a, I guess a Bud Light budget, as we call it,

Dave Ferguson:

I'd hire a coach, hire an experienced coach, let them help you. Let them help you build your coaching business, let them help you boost your branding, let them help you with with with, you know, I have coaches now that come to me and say, Hey, I've got this client, you know, one of the folks on coaching, and this is the challenge I'm having, can you help me? Right? So I'll say, have you tried this, try that, you know, so you you. And you know, I think I think that's an important thing to do, I think that you've got to invest in yourself somehow. So you got to figure out where you're gonna spend the Bud Light money, right? I was blessed, I can invest. But I was all I also started making money fairly quickly in the industry, too. So I wasn't really I wasn't dipping into my savings to invest in myself. So you know, it, the writing helped a lot. And that's another thing I tried to get other coaches I coach I tried to get him to write, it's a lot, it's actually a lot easier to get published today than it was 15 years ago. There's really so many, you know, sources that want information from you. And you know, so it's a lot easier to get published, it's also easy to publish yourself these days. So getting published is important, but having a mentor or a coach, you know, and I know I'm a coach, it's easy for me to get on here and you guys are coaches, it's easy for us to say everybody should have a coach but you want to get better get a coach, alright.

Todd Foster:

So, I'm a person working at a company and I am working for a boss, I mean it as a boss all day long, what are my options, if any?

Dave Ferguson:

If I was coaching that person, I would coach that person on how to lead up to a person right because leadership is three directs three directions of leadership, most people are only familiar with leading down. So these are the your subordinates, right people you are paid to lead or boss. Okay, and obviously a cross, right? You lead across the people your same level in organization, right. So the way you three lead across to each other, right. And and then up so that is to your boss or your leader. So there was specific and I would coach that person on how to lead up to that leader. So that leader would realize that in some ways, I'm more of a leader than that person is. And hopefully they learn from that. So you at least start having some conversation.

Kelley Skar:

Isn't there some danger in that though, Dave? I mean, that person that's directly above Todd, you know if Todd has kind of You know, in not directly pointing out some of the flaws in the boss's leadership style, wouldn't there be an opportunity for the boss to feel threatened at that point and look for maybe look for excuses to the turf Todd like I would,?

Dave Ferguson:

I would never coach them to, to outright challenge what the what the person is doing, I would coach them to, to prove to show them that they're being developed as a leader, regardless of the boss. Right without saying it to him, right. Like I'm learning about leadership, I'm reading this leadership book, his book, it taught me how to lead up to you. And so I need to ask some questions of you. So I know how best to lead up to you. So in essence, that he can help this gentleman or lady, um, and and help them and then prove a point to him without hitting them over the head, go on your boss, and I hate working for firing me. You know, there's ways to do and that's what this is. This is the power of coaching. Right? Because if not, this person might go in a completely different direction. Right, and it would backfire. And it's really the power of coaching is is helping people see different perspectives than the one they currently store in their head. And protect in some cases. The sort of man, the man or woman that can hold the most perspectives, but make none of them solid, will be your best leader.

Voiceover:

Hold up! It's time for the lightning round.

Kelley Skar:

Dave, we got this one segment on our show. It's called the lightning round. And I'm going to pepper you with about four or five different questions. And the goal is to get you to answer top of mind right away right away. Okay, you're ready?

Dave Ferguson:

I didn't sign up for this, did I?

Kelley Skar:

No, he didn't. You did not. Here we go. If you could spend the day in someone else's shoes, whose would they be?

Dave Ferguson:

Jesus' sandals.

Kelley Skar:

Oh, that was a that was actually something that I did not expect. What was the last text message that you sent?

Dave Ferguson:

Ohh, I'll have to look? Oh, a friend saying I'd call you later.

Kelley Skar:

Oh, here's here's one that I absolutely love. In one sentence or less. Knowing what you know. Now what advice would you give your 18 year old self?

Dave Ferguson:

You always drill before you shoot.

Kelley Skar:

Oh, I like that. That is really good. That's a good one. Damn, Coach Dave. Good. Good, man. We like all right. All right. Last one. Where is your happy place?

Dave Ferguson:

If you follow if ou follow me on social med a, you you'd know that ans er.

Kelley Skar:

Who's happy places in the beach?

Voiceover:

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