Dustin Brohm - Social Media Connection: How Attraction Marketing Through Instagram, Reels, Facebook, Blogs, and Youtube Helped a Starving Real Estate Agent Find Business Success

Voiceover: 0:01

Welcome to the SUCCESS Coaching Podcast. On today's episode, our guest Dustin Brohm shares his own personal journey to success because success is a journey, not a destination. Here's the hosts of the SUCCESS Coaching Podcast, Todd Foster, Alyssa Stanley and Kelley Skar.

Alyssa Stanley: 0:25

Welcome back to this SUCCESS Coaching Podcast. My name is Alyssa Stanley, I am here with Todd Foster and Kelley Skar. Today, we get to sit down with Dustin Brohm, who created the Massive Ggent, a real estate education brand to effectively help real estate professionals to see success in their businesses. Massive Agent offers Facebook ads coaching, general coaching for REALTORS, and coming soon online courses on mastering Facebook ads and other marketing strategies. He's an Inman speaker and contributor blogger. His work has been published on prominent real estate sites like Zillow blog, Housing Wire, RIS Media, Home Light, realtor.org, Inman, Ad Works, Zurple, and more. Dustin is also a national speaker and trainer as he believes that authenticity is the key to doing business more effectively. And that being yourself not only enhances the right client for you, but discourages the wrong ones from approaching you as well. Welcome Dustin, so glad to have you here.

Dustin Brohm: 1:26

All right, appreciate you guys having me on. This is awesome. I'm honored to be here.

Kelley Skar: 1:30

Why don't you kind of dive in and give us the you know, the Coles Notes version of who Dustin is and, you know, kind of where you started and where you're where you're at today?

Dustin Brohm: 1:37

Sure, yeah. Ultimately, I'm a marketer who sells homes. And it took me a while to settle into that role. I, you know, I got my real estate license to become a realtor about 11 years ago, almost exactly 11 years ago. And at the time, I was a real estate agent. And then I learned because I didn't get any business and wasn't selling any homes that, Oh, my God, I have to learn how to attract clients, I have to actually get people in the door. And that's, that takes advertising and marketing, which I knew nothing about at the time. And out of necessity. I, you know, started learning about social media and, and paid traffic. I started with blogging, actually about three or four years into my career. You know, like I said, it was out of necessity, I was starving to death, basically. And I was like, How the hell can I get some, some clients to work with because I was relying on a team. And they weren't giving me very many, like a couple clients here or there. And I'm, I'm like, Well, this sucks. Like, I see these people selling 500 homes a year. What's the difference? I at the time thought, well, maybe they're just a great realtor. And I'm not. And I've learned that has nothing to do with it. You have to be good. But it's it's how good are you at marketing and getting new clients in the door and generating new conversations. So I Googled how to get real estate leads. And it opened my eyes to content marketing, attraction marketing. Before I was just following someone who had knock on doors, cold call, where his stupid name tag in the produce section of the grocery store and talk to people, which and I don't, I don't like when people do that, to me, it is so unnatural for my personality. And so I didn't have any success doing it. If you're if you're doing something that you just hate. How the hell are you going to have any success, you're not going to be able to do it long enough, or well enough, or with the enthusiasm you need to to succeed. So you know, I I learned about attraction marketing. And immediately it was like, Wait, that's for me, if that's real, if I really can do a video or write a blog article, or do some a podcast or whatever now. And people could actually come to me and want to work with me. That's, that's for me, that fits my personality. Then I met some mentors, on Google Plus, of all places, who we had little community of real estate bloggers. And I just started doing exactly what they were doing. And they were selling a bunch of homes, and they were writing articles being found on Google when people would search locally. I just started following what they're doing. But I learned pretty quickly to creating the content is not everything. It's important. But it's only part of it. It's it's half of it. You can create the best video the best post the best article ever. Like people weep when they read it. But what if they don't know what exists? What if they've never actually seen the video? What if they don't know you have a video? What if they don't know that you have an Instagram profile with that video on it? So I learned pretty quick you have to get really good at promoting the content you create. And that's what brought me into social media marketing and, and realizing I'm actually even though I'm selling homes, I really love and got really frickin good at the marketing side. I'm a marketer. Who happens to sell homes. And I think anyone listening, you could be a dentist, you could be an electrician, you could be making your own soap or you could be an ecommerce store. But you need to be a marketer first, who happens to be a dentist. And if you can start thinking like that your world will change. And my world changed once I once I leaned into that role.

Kelley Skar: 5:19

Why did you get into real estate? And I guess the real question is, why did you choose real estate?

Dustin Brohm: 5:25

All the all the dead end do jobs that so many, you know, early 20s dudes will do like detailing cars, call centers, I was a debt collector, which was very interesting. It did some construction, you know, like some some handyman type construction stuff, which was, which was helpful, like I learned some skills. But it was all just dead end stuff. And right before I got into real estate, I was serving and bussing at a restaurant here in Salt Lake while also working at backcountry calm. As a gear expert, which was just fun. I got to talk about snowboards, and rock climbing stuff all day long. That was cool. But there, it wasn't a career, there were jobs. And I got fired from both within the same week. I was not the best employee.

Todd Foster: 6:13

Congratulations.

Dustin Brohm: 6:14

Exactly. In hindsight, what a blessing at the time. It was this huge low point in my life. But my mom recommended that I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and I knew nothing about it. I just knew that it had the word rich in it. And that's something I want it to be in at that time where money is what I didn't have. I was gonna read the book. I read it, and it showed me real estate's where you need to go. And like, it's amazing how just one thing leads to another when you look back at the at the this thin thread that connects everything and had not gotten fired. Would I ever read that book? And if I didn't read that book, what would I be doing right now? I have no idea. I might still be like serving tables at a different restaurant? I don't know. But yeah, I was doing all that stuff. So real estate's really my first career of my life.

Todd Foster: 7:06

So you got in real estate, was it because of the fact that like most of us, in real estate, we didn't have many more options? Was it the sense or the perception that it would be easy, and you could be making a million dollars in the next three months? What really attracted real estate other than your mom, which is nice that you actually listen to your mom in your 20s?

Dustin Brohm: 7:26

I listened to her very little but thank God, I didn't think that I listened sometimes. So reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad, it was all about, you know, investing in real estate, like, you know, having a rental properties and stuff like that. And so that's what I was gonna do. And you know, when you're watching a indie watching flip this house on a&e, and they make 80 grand in 30 minutes. You know, obviously not literally, but they make it look so doable. Not not easy. I didn't, I never thought that it was going to be easy. But I thought that it was easier than it was for me. But it just looked like something that I could do. And I saw Wait, there's no limit to the income here. Every other job I've ever had, the limit is how many hours you can work. And I'm like, wait a minute, this is this is something where that that's not the case. Like you could, you could make a million dollars, but work 10 hours. You know, they're not connected when you're an entrepreneur. So that was really cool. And I was fully intending to be a real estate investor. And we bought our first house, my parents and I we partnered on buying our first place. And we were going to flip it, we had a real estate agent that a good friend who runs a pretty big team here in Salt Lake recommended it was one of his agents that he hooked us up with. We didn't know anything. We didn't know who's a good agent, we didn't know which questions to ask to see if they were good. And you know, so like, Okay, if you say this to the person or the person? Well, they, we were relying on them to tell us how much the house will be worth after we fixed it up. And they were wrong. They were they were off by about 15 or 20 grand. And our profit margin that we were hoping to get was about 15 or 20 grand. So can't sell the house and make a profit made no sense. So we ended up holding it as a rental, which was another blessing in disguise. We ended up cash flowing quite well and sold it for, you know, years later for, you know, twice as much as we bought it for. But it showed me that you can't rely on someone else. If you want to really be a successful real estate investor, for example, you've got to have your own license. And the president of the local investor Association told me as much he's like if you have any shot of being successful, you need to get your license for a bunch of different reasons, access to the MLS. You know, you could list your own homes, buy your own homes, there's commissioned all this stuff. And I'm like, Okay, so I'm going to get my license and then I'm going to start flipping homes and making a million bucks. And I somehow got referred a client to work with With a buyer and I helped them buy a condo through a short sale, which most new people in real estate don't even know what the hell a short sale is. They're, you know, legends from from years past. And you know, something about that process of helping them I loved. But if I'm being honest, there was an actual paycheck at the end, which had not yet happened in real estate. And so I'm like, Okay, if there's an actual paycheck, I should just keep doing this. And so I did, I just I doubled down as the traditional real estate agent guy, not having a clue how any of it worked. And, you know, needing to now figure that out.

Kelley Skar: 10:38

And then you get into the world of blogging.

Dustin Brohm: 10:40

Yes.

Kelley Skar: 10:40

Right. And figuring out how to generate Real Estate Leads.

Dustin Brohm: 10:43

Yeah.

Kelley Skar: 10:44

So I mean, it's very similar paths, actually, there's a lot of intersection points between your career and mine. And, and I started 15, I'm in my 15th year now. And about three years, in four years in I went the digital route myself, I started to focus on video blogging, and, you know, creating my own content, it took about two years for it to take hold, in order to actually start generating a decent amount of leads for myself. 2012 was a breakthrough year where every single lead that I generated was completely completely organic. Right. And, you know, the conversion levels with organic leads just go through the roof instead of, you know, as opposed to paid advertising. So I'm curious, what would be your advice today for somebody that's looking at, you know, perhaps following a similar path, considering the saturation of the market. And, you know, on top of that these big mega teams that are spending, you know, 10s of 1000s of dollars every single month on on paid advertising,

Dustin Brohm: 11:40

I wish that I had known how marketing is so important. I didn't know that they don't teach you anything about that in real estate school, they don't teach you anything about anything important. Like, how many feet are in an acre? Like, who cares?

Kelley Skar: 11:54

They do teach you how to protect your ass, though.

Dustin Brohm: 11:56

Yes, how does how to stay out of jail once a little bit, but it has nothing.

Kelley Skar: 12:00

That's right.

Dustin Brohm: 12:01

But at the same time, like not really, you know, you've got to you got to learn everything after you're licensed, which is fine. But had I understood that marketing is everything, I would have focused on it a lot faster. And I would have used all these free tools that are available, like social media, you know, video, YouTube, Facebook, Tik Tok everything. And I would have, I would have used them the right way. So I learned everything that I've done, every every bit of success I've ever had, has been through trial and error. For the most part, it hasn't been until a year or so ago that I actually started to hire people who could just shorten the learning curve for me, like taking a course hiring a coach or mentor. But, man, I would say that every one of us, even myself, we are squandering this opportunity that we have right here in our hands at all times. With social media, you just have to use it the right way, which very, very few real estate people do very, very few business owners and entrepreneurs of any kind, do the right way. And I mean, spoiler alert, the reason is, why is we're all telling people what we want them to hear a word, we're using it to tell people, Hey, you should hire me, because you should come, you should, you know, be a customer of ours, because you should buy my T shirt, because rather than showing people what they want to see the very, very big difference. And if you can make that shift in your head, every time you're about to post something like okay, is this am I just posting this? Because I want someone to know this? Or is it something that'll actually add some value to their life, and potentially attract them to our brand? And you know, the answer to that question is everything. Most people don't ask the question.

Todd Foster: 13:50

You got in real estate, and you had a flop of a flip. And then you start short sales, which can take years, it feels like. You had so many chances to get out and leave. What kept you there? Other than the paycheck at the end?

Dustin Brohm: 14:07

Man, Todd, that's such a good question. I had another podcast interview recently that asked me that, that it kind of blindsided me, and it still kind of does. Because while I was struggling, and, you know, some severe strains on my marriage, and you know, with our, our son at the time, who was, you know, a newborn? Like, not good times. But I don't think I ever thought about going and doing something else. I believe I felt trapped, like I had gone so far down this road that I had to figure it out that I couldn't just quit now and go to law school or go get a job at this place, or whatever like it. So I didn't really think about it. So I felt trapped. And at the time, I think that was probably a negative. But what a blessing. Like I had burned the boats and I didn't even realize it. So I didn't have any other choice but to figure this out.

Kelley Skar: 15:01

You mentioned early on that there were some major strains on your marriage. How did you convince your partner that this was the right path for you that this is going to be the right way to go?

Dustin Brohm: 15:12

Oh, that is, that is such a good question. Like, honestly, I think that I just have an amazing wife that for some reason, believed in my vision, or trusted that I could actually do what I said I was going to do, even though I hadn't really shown her that I could, I, there wasn't a whole lot, I think she could just tell that there was conviction in my voice that I was actually going to build something, and met all of this stuff that you may not see a payoff from for nine months or 12 months, you know, like, starting to blog, or starting to do YouTube videos, or whatever, that, hey, this actually does lead to income, but indirectly. And so I think I'd love to ask her that question. You know, why the hell did you did you stick around and put up with me, but I think, I think she just somehow believe me. So that still kind of boggles my mind. But thank God she did.

Kelley Skar: 16:09

Well, I mean, you're in sales. So that's there's, there's, there's part of it, right? I remember having a very vivid conversation with my wife back at the end of 2011. And it was the same sort of thing she was pushing, I was, you know, I spent 10 years in the trades and, and, you know, we 2011 was a very up and down year, I think I had a massive month in May, and then didn't see a paycheck until September. And, you know, here we are sitting, you know, in our bedroom at the end of the year. And she's like, you know, you need to you need to go back to welding, you need to get back in the industry, I need to see a regular paycheck. And I have been doing everything, exactly what you've talked about blogging video, everything that I've been doing for two years, I knew I felt it in my bones that it was going to pay off, you know, and 2012 was going to be that breakthrough year. So I had to do a massive sales job. And you know, for whatever reason, she just kind of, she bought into that I think like you said dust and it's something to do with the conviction in your in your voice and, you know, the kind of the authority and it's like, I know this is gonna work and you know, what, if it doesn't, I've always got kind of a backup plan anyways, but, you know, I was of the same mindset where it's like, I'm gonna burn the boats at the beach, and I'm never going back to welding like ever, man. Right. And and so it's very similar. I think, our partners, our wives, you know, that I think it is a great question to ask your wife because I you couldn't you just can't put words in her mouth. There's something that she saw probably in you that she just she believed in you. I think that maybe that's what it is. That's all it was. She just believed that it was because you believed it so deeply and so hard. You know, she couldn't help but not believe it herself? I don't know. Maybe that's what it is.

Dustin Brohm: 17:50

I think so to a certain extent. I, I, I think the honest answer to is she probably felt a little trapped also, like, what the hell else we're gonna do? You know, like, I've got to trust him, like, what else is it going to do? So sometimes that works out. It's crazy.

Todd Foster: 18:09

So from the time you started real estate to the time you felt like you finally made it, whatever that made it is, how long do you think that took?

Dustin Brohm: 18:19

I still don't think I'm there. To be honest. I mean, I feel pretty good about what I've built. And, you know, the flexibility I have, and, you know, like, I can do whatever I want. Each day, I can go take my kids to lunch during the middle of the day, you know, I have full control over all that, which is awesome. And I'm pretty proud of the brand. I've built the audience I've built the business I've built. But you know, I think this is the entrepreneurs curse is you know, when you're constantly striving for that next level, you never feel like you've arrived. And so like, I know, I've had success that doesn't that's not lost on me. But I don't feel like I don't know, I don't consider myself a successful person yet.

Todd Foster: 19:05

Interesting. So when you were young, and you said, you know, I can't wait to grow up to be a real estate agent who blogs and does social media.

Dustin Brohm: 19:12

Right.

Todd Foster: 19:13

Are you living what you thought you'd be? At this point in your life?

Dustin Brohm: 19:17

Oh, God, no, no. Growing up, I just thought I'd have a good job and just keep working my way up the up the ladder, because that's what I that's what I had been modeled my whole childhood. I didn't have anyone in my family, anywhere that was a business owner or an entrepreneur at all, so like, it's crazy to think about how I've, you know, single handedly changed the change the family tree, if you will, just by some decisions, just by some decisions and being stubborn enough not to quit. You know, now my son is seeing that I I have my own company, and I do my own thing, and I'm my own boss, all of that. Because he, he hears about how there's bosses that are mean, and the employees that don't like the boss, because that's what he sees in TV shows and stuff. And he's seeing something different in his life, which is cool. And I didn't have that. So yeah, and now just being surrounded by the friends that I have, I've chosen very well luckily, that the some of the friends I have are so much further ahead than me with with income with with size of business with everything. But I love that, you know, thank God, I'm not the one that you know, that I like being the dumbest guy in the room. I love that, like, I feel like that now, which is fantastic. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

Kelley Skar: 20:46

So you posted something onto your Instagram here the other day, I'm gonna read it out real quick. And then I'm going to get you kind of dive a little bit deeper on that. And obviously, it's relevant to our audience. And basically, you said that coach or courses too expensive and air quotes, experiences taught me that the most that most times it's much more expensive not to do it. And you kind of expand on that a little bit further?

Dustin Brohm: 21:07

Absolutely. This is something that I've learned the hard way. But when I first started to learn about content, marketing, and blogging, and then Facebook advertising, to promote the content that I had just created, I looked at some of the courses that were out there, and some of the coaches that would show people Hey, like, here's how to do it, here's the blueprint, this, you know, so you can be getting leads tonight. And I'm like, Ooh, $500, or oh, you know, $2,000, or whatever. And in hindsight is such a small amount of money. But at the time when you literally don't have it, or you're in a scarcity mindset where like, you probably could find it, but you're just like, can't afford it. Can't afford it. And so many, how many of us have done that, you know, some of us are still doing it. And it's just it's a horrible habit, rather than asking, How can I afford that? How can I come up with that? Because I used to see the course the coach, the conference, the seminar, as an expense. It's 100% an investment, as long as you choose what choose wisely. You know, you can't just go with some, there's a lot of these Instagram coaches that are 17 years old, but their life coaches, probably not the best, probably not the best investment. But you know, when you when you're looking at a credible course, or a coaching program or whatever, it I cannot imagine how much further ahead, I'd be how much more money I would have made, how many more homes I would have sold, how much faster I would have done that? Had I just downloaded someone else's knowledge, someone else's expertise, paid them for it, but been able to shorten the learning curve. So what took me over a year could have taken me 30 days. How many missed? You know, I can't even fathom how much further ahead I'd be. And so that's why I say not not spending the money on the course, or the coach could be one of the biggest, most expensive mistakes ever. Because of the lost income the missed opportunity.

Kelley Skar: 23:18

Okay, so let's say that I'm a struggling entrepreneur, and I don't have much money. What would you recommend to someone since social media is the way to go? Where should I invest the most money into?

Dustin Brohm: 23:30

Social media, for sure.

Kelley Skar: 23:32

Okay. Okay. So what type of platform should I concentrate on?

Dustin Brohm: 23:38

Well, that depends on what you're doing for a living for real estate agents who want to get buyers and sellers to hire them, YouTube, I mean, get a decent camera for 800 bucks, some lighting, you know, for 50 bucks, you could have some amazing lighting, and make your videos just look so so so good. Learn how YouTube is a search engine and not a social media platform and follow a certain formula of creating content that people are searching for. This is not just for real estate agents. There's a site out there called Answer the public answer the public.com. And you can just type in your city. And then it shows you what people are searching for around that topic. And it shows you like are there a lot of search? Is there a lot of search volume? Is there a little and it's telling you literally the questions people are asking, and then you answer those questions. So if you are a if you install swimming pools, and you find out which questions people are asking the internet, about swimming pools, and then you just go answer them online, YouTube, social media videos, articles, all of the above, mixed together on your website. You're going to explode because people are going to find you because you're answering the question that they have. And there's a book that's called they ask you answer I believe they Ask you answer that. My mentor Clayton recommended, and it's all about this, it's somebody, the author is a, he does something with pools. I think that's why I came up with the example. But he has the number one, like swimming pool website on the planet, just by finding out what are people asking and answering the questions. If you're a dentist that works, if you're a contractor, that definitely works if you're a plumber. You know, if you are starting a boutique, you know, when people are asking about certain fabrics, or certain styles or whatever makeup, whatever people are asking, answer the questions, and do it with the free tools that exist right now. And, and so it doesn't need to cost a lot of money. But you're gonna have to put in some effort.

Todd Foster: 25:48

I love that you said, you're going to explode. So, when you talk about the explosion happening, and you're posting YouTube videos, and no one's watching them, or you're doing a podcast, no one's listening to it. That's when you would advise them to do what next?

Dustin Brohm: 26:04

That Todd, fantastic question. You need to really ask, Are these good? Are these videos good. And if they if they really, really are, then you just haven't been doing it long enough, or you're not getting enough people to know about it, maybe you need to learn SEO so that more people find your articles, maybe you need to run some ads to get people to, you know, to actually get to your website. There's always something that you can do to improve, you know, the the promotion of your content, but make sure that the content is good. Now the good isn't necessarily in your eyes that's in the eyes of the viewer, or the person consuming it. And when I say good, does it actually meet their needs? So if you're, if they're asking a question, and you're answering it, did you answer it? Well, so sometimes you it takes us an extreme amount of self awareness to do this. And being honest with yourself and kind of putting yourself in the eyes of the consumer who was looking for whatever it is that you're offering, whatever product or service you have, put yourself in those shoes, if you were them? Would what you just created, even get your attention would answer their question, would it answer their question quickly enough? Or is the video too long? Do you take way too long to get to the point. So the thing that I recommend look at others who are doing it very, very well. In any industry, it doesn't matter. And just literally do what they're doing. There's there's bits and pieces of how they do things that you can implement. So look at how long are their videos? You know, what? Do they have a hook in the beginning? How long is that hook? What is a hook? You know, then how do they do it? Are they doing lists? Like the five things you need to know about this? What are the trends that you find in the in the content that gets your attention. And there's, we're not inventing new new things here. Like this isn't the medical field, we're not inventing new compounds, you know, we're we're trying to get people to hire us or buy our product. And so marketing, just rip off and duplicate what others are doing well, with your own spin on it that's relevant to whatever it is you're offering. And that's the formula, but it takes stepping back, looking at, like when you're when you're scrolling Instagram later today. Whatever, whenever you stopped to look at something. Be conscious about why you stopped. What made you stop? Was it colorful? Was it a video that was moving? Was it an image that you recognize like maybe your your town, or a place that you you've been was in the background? Or maybe it's something to static that you haven't seen in 30 years or whatever? What about the stuff that gets your attention? Like, why did it get your attention? What about it got your attention? And then now you can notice, okay, here's some trends. Now I can do this as well. And most people don't do that. They're just like, hey, my content created. It's out there. I did my job boxes checked. Now. Where's all the viewers? It? Maybe it works that way. But usually you've got some tweaking to do.

Kelley Skar: 29:14

Yeah, we had a conversation with with Don Hobbs here recently. And I brought up Joe Rogan's podcast he was interviewing was Jimmy Crosetti I think he's got a YouTube channel and he talks about ancient ancient civilizations and kind of really dials down into that whole niche, you know, ancient, ancient Rome, Egyptians, like, you know, all of these different civilization. He was in some some really deep high level stuff. Anyways, the point was, is that he, you know, he started doing videos back in 2016. And they were abysmal, like the the, there was no traffic, nobody was finding them. And then he figured out that he needed to dial into the type of content that he really enjoyed. And if he really enjoyed that type of content, people were going to be able to feel that through their, through their camera, right, they're gonna be able to hear it in his voice, they're gonna hear it and see it in his body language. And if he's passionate about it, he's knowledgeable about it, then, you know, that's going to come across on camera. So once he figured that out, then it was like, Okay, well, what's the next step? You know, maybe I got to reconfigure some of my thumbnails to get found. Maybe you got to reconfigure some of the titles to get to get found some of that SEO type stuff that you're talking about Dustin, it's funny that we're talking about video, we're talking about coaching, kind of at the same time, I actually recently hired a coaching company to do a YouTube consultation with me, it cost me about 300 bucks us. You know, the guy spent about an hour and a half with me, we sat down, he analyzed my channel, went through all of this stuff, made some really great suggestions. And then he was talking through all three different types of videos and one was discoverable. So a discoverable exactly what you're talking about, if you're an agent, and you're speaking to the buying and selling public, creating that discoverable type content, exactly what people are searching for. The second one was like a community buckets. So you're directing people to the comments where they're, you know, going to be asking you questions, and maybe you're going to dump jump into the comments and answer those questions. And then the sales bucket. So it's like, two to one was the formula that he gave me to discoverable to community, one sales bucket where you're, you're actually asking for the transaction, which I thought was very interesting you that that whole plan can be applied to not just real estate, but every single business that's out there.

Dustin Brohm: 31:32

Correct, I mean, my, I think about the products that I buy, right now, so many of them are influenced by what I've seen on Instagram, or a Facebook ad, or somebody who I follow and I'm connected with, they use that and they recommend it. And not not that like, Hey guys, today is 20% off. So swipe up, it's them sharing how they use that, that product in their lives. My wife doesn't really like stories on Instagram, that's her Netflix, she watches Netflix too, but you know, she watches them just like she would consume, you know, a show. And it's amazing. She, you know, she finds people that she resonates with. And if they recommend certain things, she she's naturally like, Oh, that's great. The reason why is because when you are yourself when you infuse some of your own personality and and just what you who you are into your content, you're going to attract people similar to you, Joe Rogan, in your example. He he started attracting people like him. Like my wife wouldn't listen to Joe Rogan, unless there's a really interesting guests. Because, you know, she doesn't really resonate with him in his personality style. Cool, but there's millions who do. And he's built the biggest podcast on the planet, just by talking with his friends. Right? Talking with his friends, and having sometimes four hour conversations about ridiculous stuff. But it's great stuff. Because you attract the right people. And so one of the best things that I ever did in my content career was just being myself. So I'll curse, I'll forget my, you know, I lose my train of thought, I'll drop stuff like, and I don't edit it out, because people can relate to that. And I'm under no illusion that, that everybody likes me. I'm sure that I repel quite a few people. But I attract the right people, people that really do connect with me. And those are the people that end up hiring me and working with me, or we become partners in our business or whatever. And it's it's just such a superpower when you can be yourself in your content and show who you are, what is your day? Like? Do you have a family? What are your interests so that others who have those as well will connect with you. And then that's what's gonna make them hire you or buy your product or use your service more than the other person's is they have a personal connection with you. And if you're too scripted, and if you're too rough around the edges and too salesy all the time, you're you're preventing a personal connection for being possible. And that's where the business comes from. That's the magic of social media right there.

Voiceover: 34:20

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Todd Foster: 34:27

You brought up staying on track. So I'd like to bounce off that with the theme track? How do you track your views? What are you looking for? What's a win? What's a loss? I guess, what's the report card? How would someone understand exactly where they should be? At this point in time doing blank blank blank?

Dustin Brohm: 34:48

Yeah, but you guys ask really good questions. I love it. So what I think is is good like if I do an Instagram real, what my definition of oh, it performs Well, he's going to be different than yours. And it's going to be different from this person's. So you just kind of know that you you look at all the insights and numbers that the social media platforms give you, you know, you can get really into the weeds really nerdy, on, you know, graphs and charts and the way things are trending and stuff, and I look at that stuff, I love that. But at the same time, you know, when when something you put out, is hitting, and you know, when it's not, you know, if you guys do a podcast episode, and all of a sudden, like, you're getting a ton of engagement around that, whether that's on social, or you're getting a bunch of messages saying, hey, I really enjoyed that, or this, this one guess was really impactful or whatever. That's, that's how you measure it, you know that there's no metric out there that shows you scientifically, or with data, like this was the most impactful episode. But you just know, you know, so I think people probably put a little bit too much stock into analytics and all of that, you should do that stuff. You absolutely should. But at the end of the day, are you moving in the right direction? Are you getting more views? Or are you not something that I, I stepped over to the nerdy side just a few months ago, and I created a spreadsheet with a different sheet for each social network. And then I have my podcast analytics, and then I have my income. And so I track how many impressions I get on Instagram, how many posts did I make that month? How many stories Did I did I do on YouTube? How many videos did I publish? How many views how much reach all that stuff? And then I figure out okay, is there a correlation between? And I don't know the answer to this yet. I'm going to hire someone much smarter with with Excel than I am to figure out is there a correlation between all this data and my income? And what is that correlation, because then I can figure out my KPIs, so I can know exactly what I should focus on. Not everyone needs to do that. Right. Now, you don't need to do that from the beginning. If you're if you're just about to, like maybe you have a restaurant, and you haven't done shit on social media, but you're about to, you just need to start, you need to focus on being consistent with great stuff and letting people see what the experience is like, and see what other people's experiences like at your restaurant. And another going to want to come great photography, great videos, all of that great reviews, share that stuff. Because then people want to come over time, once you get a handle on just getting the content out there, then you can get to the more nerdy stuff where you're tracking and doing graphs and stuff. But at the beginning, don't even worry about it. You just know, oh, I used to get on average 40 views. Now I'm getting 140. And then a month later, now I'm getting you know, 700 views, you know, it's moving in the right direction. So just keep doing the stuff that got you there.

Kelley Skar: 37:50

With respect to video and reels. And yeah, I know you're on the the Over Ask Podcast with Eric and Matt here. I think live That was last week. Great, guys.

Dustin Brohm: 37:59

That was a fun interview.

Kelley Skar: 38:00

Yeah, we've had them both on our show as well. And super knowledgeable dudes. You know, I know you guys were more than likely talking about reels and you know, the impact that that reels have in video. So I'm curious, polished versus raw? Like, what what is there a combination? Is there a secret sauce is, is it isn't just as easy as picking up the phone and you know, shooting the thing and posting it up? Like, what are your thoughts on that?

Dustin Brohm: 38:25

Yes, it is that easy. And yes, if you're not doing that you should. But you evolve too, you know, once you be really become a content creator, and you know what you're doing and you've kind of settled into a groove, you start to understand the difference between an Instagram story or a snap, or, you know, a Facebook story. And then the short form reels, Tik Toks, Facebook stories, YouTube shorts, there's a big difference. But you don't know the difference. And then there's also a difference between a feed post, like just posting an image or something text on LinkedIn, or Facebook or Instagram. They perform differently. There's a slightly different audience for them. And so you have to kind of learn that by doing I'm just barely starting to understand the difference. I am. What I'm really focused on right now is all of the above. So some just some graphics with maybe a quote. I mean, you just quoted it on your podcast, and it was just like me taking a screenshot of a tweet. And and putting it out there. That's one type. It doesn't get nearly as much reach as a reel does so reels, they need to be somewhat witty, they need to be entertaining, they need to be informational and educational. Some of those that I'm starting to do are the more polished, more edited stuff. Because I've seen those work really well. And I think that it's going to work well for me and my audience, but then having Instagram stories in addition to it to add the personal side so I share, like, going to the gym. And here's what I'm doing. Or last night, we took the kids to ride the Polar Express train up near Park City, Utah. And, and just sharing behind the scenes, I would never post that stuff on YouTube. I would never post that as an Instagram video. But I sure as hell do it in stories, because that's what people expect in stories is the the unedited, the unpolished, the horrible lighting and the shaky camera, but it's you and your life. So you have to know the difference of what's expected in each place, and then create them. And and I know that there's people that are listening, they're like, how the hell do you expect me to do all of that? Well, I don't, not today, but start somewhere, just start with your stories. One of the best things that I ever did was four or five years ago, it's probably five years ago, I started using Snapchat, and speaking to other real estate agents. And at the time, I didn't do so well, in video, I, I used to think I needed a script, I'd have to do multiple takes of things. And I was just nervous on video, like most people will now I don't care, like I'm not nervous at all, I could even get on a stage in front of 1000 people and I'm barely nervous. But it started with practicing 10 seconds at a time doing snaps. And so over time just doing that you're practicing to be better at all the other stuff, you're going to gain more confidence, you're going to become less shy, in such, and I can't think of a better place than snaps or Instagram stories to do it. Because people expect it to be laid back. They don't expect it to be professionally done. They just expect it to be you. And what a great place to practice.

Kelley Skar: 41:45

Do you think a REALTOR in 2022 needs a social media?

Dustin Brohm: 41:50

If they want to be in business, yeah. Here's the thing. Everyone's on social social is becoming more and more influential every day. Whether you like that or not, whether you agree with it or not, it's just a fact. And when that's the case, people are finding your competitors in their newsfeed. They're seeing videos from your competitors, they're seeing posts from your competitors. So if you're not showing up in their newsfeed, you literally don't exist to them. You literally don't exist. So if you ever want to be hired by someone who doesn't yet know You, you don't really have a choice, but to be on social media. And, and ideally social media and running some paid ads to to be found where you know, where they're searching for people. So, yeah, I can't. It's sad when I see so many people who are, they're doing well today, just from referrals. But they don't realize that every one of their clients who is hiring them today, later that night, they're gonna see a video or a post from one of their competitors. If it's an electrician, I just had an electrician here, putting in our Tesla charger in the garage. And he's all based on referrals. And I'm just thinking, like, that's great for today. But oh my god, I'm gonna see other electricians, like teaching me how to do something in an Instagram reel. And I'm gonna forget about this guy, and probably remember the one who's showing up on my screen. That's just reality. So those referrals will dry up, because the people who would have hired you based on a referral, they're not going to see you, they're going to be seeing someone else, and they're going to be top of mind.

Todd Foster: 43:33

Okay, so I decided to listen to what you're saying. And I'm going to go get on reels or Snapchat or Tik Tok. What would you recommend to someone like me who doesn't really know where to begin? And more importantly, how often should I expect to be posting?

Dustin Brohm: 43:52

I would say, start with once a day. on any platform, you know, whichever. There's no one right platform. You know, I used to say Facebook was my favorite. Now it's become Instagram. Well, it used to be Snapchat. And it evolves over time, because I evolve as a person. So I that just works for me, if, if someone came to me and they said, You must be doing tic toc. Like, I don't, I don't want to do it. Like I'm learning more about it because I see the opportunity there. But I've also now built the experience behind me where I can add more on in the beginning. You can't you're just trying to get it done. You're just trying to frickin create something and put it out there without doing it in 162 takes. So just by putting it out there you've you've already won. Start with start with whichever platform you currently enjoy the most and understand the most Alright, is probably the one that you have the biggest audience on the biggest network. The biggest number of connections on is the one that you use most you like most. So start there just makes the most sense. then consume a ton of content from others, from your competitors from others who are doing well in their fields. The best content creators are also the best content consumers, I get so many ideas from just watching other people's stuff. And I don't exactly like I don't exactly rip off what they've done. But they may do something a certain way. Or they use a certain song, or it's a certain topic. And I was like, Oh, that's a great idea. Like, I'll just do that with my own spin on it, of course. So I wouldn't have like the ideas that I come up with, I probably have 10% of the ideas that I have, if I didn't consume a ton of other content. So that's something everyone can do today, for free. They're already doing it. You're already on social. But do it more intentionally, and follow some more people intentionally? And just see how they're doing things? And then take those ideas, you get the inspiration, and start putting it out there yourself?

Todd Foster: 46:02

Have you noticed a trend where our attention spans getting shorter and shorter due to things Tik Tok, reels,Snapchat? When you see that trend going that way, do you recommend keeping it short and simple in the beginning? And then testing out the longer things on YouTube? Or exactly where are you going with this? Because it seems like it's 15 seconds long, it's too long nowadays.

Dustin Brohm: 46:26

I've seen reels or or videos that within the first 10 seconds, I shut him off. But then I've listened to for our podcast episodes. I've watched hour and a half long YouTube videos. So yes, I agree and believe that our attention spans are getting less well. I just thought of this is very insightful. This is this is coming to my mind right now, I don't know if it's our attention spans, I think our tolerance of not getting to the point is getting less and less. I think we're becoming less and less tolerant of just a bunch of fluff. Because we know that if we just move on to the next one, we're gonna get what we're looking for, whether that's entertainment, a laugh, or if we're searching for an answer to something, if you if you don't deliver it quickly, you're done. So, so that's, that's certainly happening, call it attention span, call it whatever. But yes, and then a video or a piece of content needs to be as long as it needs to be, and not a second longer.

Kelley Skar: 47:25

That is some good insight. You know, just going back to, you know, I'll often look for things on YouTube to help me fix this, that or the other thing around the house. And I'll find myself fast forwarding to the point where the guy's actually doing the things so I can just learn, you know, instead of him, you know, going through and all of the fluff and all of the crap. It's like, I don't I don't care. I don't want to listen to it. Just show me how to fix the thing. Right? Yeah, I think that's that's really, really relevant. So as a, as a real estate agent, if I'm going to start a YouTube channel, should I be the type of content that I'd be putting out? Obviously, I'd want to put out content that buyers and sellers could obviously consume, and I could help them with the transaction, the process, do you would you mix? If part of my business model is to attract agents? Sorry, not attract agents, part of my business model is to generate referrals from agents from, you know, other parts of the country. And I'm going to create content around that, would you suggest having two different channels or, you know, two different types of content within the same channel?

Dustin Brohm: 48:32

Yes. So if your audience is different, or their expectation of the content that they're looking for are different than yeah, on YouTube, you should have different channels. I've learned this personally. Because on my Massive Agent channel, I was putting full length podcast episodes, while also trying to do shorter form, like, you know, on a four, four or six minute video on a certain topic, all on the same channel. Well, YouTube is a search engine. It's not a social network, YouTube, Google and Pinterest are search engines. So people that are willing to listen to a 45 minute long, full podcast episode on YouTube. That's a different viewer than someone who's just looking for a certain topic or the answer to a question. So I've learned pretty quickly, I need to have them separated through channels, because the algorithm will then see them different and deliver them to different people, and they'll both perform better. So I've learned that through experience, I've had a bunch of my much more successful YouTube friends tell me basically the same thing. I just bought it for so long. I'm like, I just barely got this channel. Working well, and now you're telling me I need another one? Well, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you do. But if you're, if you are a real estate agent, and you just want to reach the consumer, you want to reach the local community, and get buyers and sellers. Then speak to them. Do the videos on stuff they're actually searching for. And don't do a bunch of crap don't don't introduce yourself, talk about your firm, how many homes you've sold, they're all that just deliver what they're searching for. Now on YouTube, I see a ton of real estate agents having success with like a living in Salt Lake City channel, a living in Orlando, Florida channel, where people, people are searching cost of living in Orlando, best neighborhoods to live in are in Orlando, the you know, all that types of type of stuff like moving to Orlando. So if you start to create content like that, people are searching for it. And as long as you can deliver the information concisely, and in a somewhat entertaining way, I don't mean you have to go be a jokey jokester, if that's not your personality, but it has to be somewhat entertaining, it has to have energy. And if you can do that I, I'm seeing damn near every agent that tries that strategy consistently, having success and getting hired through it, which is incredible. And the same thing applies no matter what type of business you have. You just have to know the audience and what they're looking for, and then deliver that. And nothing else.

Kelley Skar: 51:09

You worked a bunch of odd jobs and whatnot in your early 20s. And, and found this career in real estate, you obviously didn't have the business knowledge or the business sense when you were working kind of those odd jobs that you do today. Have you taken any courses? Have you? Have you hired coaches along like later on in your career? How did you I mean, other than experience, how were you able to kind of gain the knowledge that you have, and, you know, be able to drive your business the way that because obviously, you weren't an entrepreneur at the start of your, your, your working life? Right, this is something that you learned through through, you know, trial and error. So I'm curious if you, if you had mentors, if you had coaches, if you took courses?

Dustin Brohm: 51:54

Yes, all of the above Kelley, early on, before I really started to, to hire coaches, and do all of that and make a financial commitment. I'm lucky enough to have just found some mentors along the way, and ask them questions and ask them for help. And they were nice enough to give it. I was respectful of their time. And I didn't ask too much. And I didn't act entitled. But you know, people want to help they, people want to help other people. And if you make it easy for them to do it, chances are they will. So many people just make it way too hard. They'll send you a message with eight different questions in it. And they expect a response, like busy people that are successful, the people that you want, that you actually want to be getting advice from, don't have time for that. So ask one question, and make sure that it's not like what's the meaning of life? You know, make sure it's a so ask, ask, ask. I'm lucky enough in my in my real estate business, to have joined a company that I can I have partners and mentors, just bait built into the business model, and one of my biggest mentors in life. We're business partners now just because of you know, we're both financially aligned, I didn't have to hire him. I honestly we joke about this, but I couldn't afford to hire him if even if I wanted to. But because we're aligned financially within our business, he's been a huge help to me in on so many levels. So that's been amazing. And then I've hired some some mindset coaches, you know, some mental reprogramming like NLP type of coaches and gone, gone to some trainings and events that have been absolutely huge, absolutely huge for me. So I'm now like, now that I understand how you can just write a check and download someone else's expertise in a very short period of time. I'm like, Well, okay, who else can I hire? Like, what other check can I write I want more and more and more. And what's funny is my mentors and those that are many steps ahead of me that I look to, that's what they do. They're constantly paying others for expertise, they pay money to save time rather than using their time to save money that's a that's a huge distinction you know, my I've always wanted financial independence so that our family we can just do whatever the hell we want. Now what I what I want to do, like I really enjoy business, I enjoy creating content I enjoy you know, building up other agents, you know, as part of my team like there's a lot of that that I would be doing anyways, which is super cool. But I want to continue to build a brand that becomes more of a business that isn't quite so reliant on me personally and have a great team to grow it you know, actually run a business. I I've looked at like, if I'm using this example that Dave Ramsey, his radio show, like, I've noticed, he's now starting to build a brand with other personalities. So it's not just him. Because at some, like, at some point, he's not gonna be able to do it anymore, or he just doesn't want to. So and what if something happened to him? Like if something happened to him, and he couldn't do his radio show and couldn't do the videos anymore? The brand is dead, it's done. So that's kind of what I'm thinking of is how can I grow this into an actual business and actual brand, and have others, you know, leverage the time and expertise of others. And that's always excited me, you know that network marketing has always been intriguing to me just because of that model of building a sales force and, you know, leveraging their efforts to build your own business, it's so more of that. I don't, you know, a 10 year goal, I don't exactly know how to articulate that, articulate that at this point. But more scaling more, you know, stepping out of the day to day, and being more like the CEO, or the visionary is the direction I'm headed.

Todd Foster: 56:06

So you're purposely doing things on purpose to get you to where you deserve to be next. Instead of just posting things just to be posting things,

Dustin Brohm: 56:15

Right. It's taken me a while to see the vision of how it all works. But I know who the audience is, I know what they need and what they want. And I know how, by continuing to grow the audience, how, you know, and understanding how to do that, I now see how that can grow the business as well. And it's fun. So yeah, everything I do is all moving towards something like I've I've made certain decisions aligned with certain people or certain organizations or, or removed myself from certain obligations, you know, all trying to ultimately make more by working less, and building the foundation and the platform that will allow me to do that.

Kelley Skar: 56:57

So speaking of an audience, you have a great podcast called the Massive Agent Podcast that's geared towards real estate agents and loan officers. Why did you select to focus on those two industries, solely?

Dustin Brohm: 57:10

Loan officers and REALTORS are the same, we do the same things, we just, we all have the same customer, same customer, most loan officers don't quite understand this, because they're constantly talking about mortgages, as if anybody wants a mortgage, no one wants a mortgage. It's just a necessary evil to get the house. So we work with the same customer. And so we need to be speaking the same language. So everything that I teach agents loan officers can and should be doing as well. And, you know, I just don't think many of them understand that that yet there. They still think that people want a mortgage and want to hear about the interest rates of the day and everything. Nobody wants that crap. They want the house.

Kelley Skar: 57:52

Hey, man, well, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate the almost, I guess about an hour that we've had an opportunity to chat with you. I think you've brought tremendous value to our audience. And I love following you I love your content that you continue to push out. Just let our audience know where they can connect with you online.

Dustin Brohm: 58:09

Thank you guys for having me on. This has been a blast. massiveagentpodcast.com is kind of home base, but my Instagram profile at @massiveagent, same on Facebook @massiveagent, and then YouTube. So the good thing about being an online marketer is you're not hard to find. So you know, Google Dustin Brohm or Massive Agent, you'll find me. Yeah, just follow me on social or listen to the podcast. It all works.

Todd Foster: 58:36

All right.

Kelley Skar: 58:37

Awesome.

Voiceover: 58:39

Thanks for listening to this episode of the SUCCESS Coaching Podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode, please follow or subscribe to the SUCCESS Coaching Podcast at your favorite podcast provider. For special access to past recordings, videos of past episodes, and more, please become a SUCCESS Coaching Podcast Companion at successcoachingpodcast.com.